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Right Turn, Clyde…

Las Vegas, Nevada, Political and Social Awareness
Posted May 17th, 2007 by Christopher - 10 comments

For many months now, there has a been a “controversy” in the local media. No, it hasn’t been the ill treatment of Las Vegas’ homeless population – that one lost it’s appeal back in the fall. It hasn’t been a number of other thought-provoking, socially-conscious issues that are very active in our community and should be taking up space in the local news – issues that should remain in focus until workable solutions to the problems are found and decisive actions are taken… Oh, no, not those issues… We’re [still] talking about the flight path for departures out of McCarran International Airport. Seriously important, life-changing stuff.

For those of your who do not know what this about, allow me to bring you up to speed… McCarran International Airport, the primary airport in the Las Vegas Valley, is the sixth busiest airport in the United States and eleventh in the entire world. The explosive growth in both tourism and the number of residents here in the last ten years has made the FAA readopt a former flight pattern that allows for right-turning traffic for departing flights out of McCarran. This is normal operating procedure around the world at major airports – to allow for both left traffic and right traffic to handle higher volumes, particularly at the busiest times of the day.

Why is this a problem, you ask? Some people in the Summerlin area (northwest of I-15 and the Strip) do not want planes flying overhead. I suppose most people everywhere would rather not have any planes overhead at any distance, but the reality is that planes fly overhead everywhere in the United States at one altitude or another. People flocked into Las Vegas in recent years growing our population to just short of the two million mark, myself being one of them. I don’t believe that there was one single person who moved here in the last thirty years that was unaware that this city is one of the premier resort cities of the world, complete with gaming and all manner of adult activities, and visited by tens of millions of tourists annually. Those tourists arrive, for the most part, by airplane. Tourism is intrinsic to the nature of this city, possibly more than any other major city on Earth; it’s the reason people who first moved here got their first tastes of the city we know and love, and now that they are here, that industry is going to do anything but go away.

People in Summerlin, with the backing of the mayor and city council, have continued to push to block FAA’s right turn proposal, citing inability to sleep by the residents voicing the loudest complaints, as well as more vague fears of lowered property values. I have to wonder just how lightly these folks sleep out there. Since moving to the near-southwest part of the valley, I’ve been living directly under the “left turn” flight path out of McCarran and I’m only two exits away from I-15, so I’m closer to the planes as they fly overhead because they haven’t gained as much altitude as they will have by the time they approach Summerlin. The funny thing is I have no problem sleeping at all, even when I have to sleep during the day, which has been a considerable amount of the time given my profession of the past few years.

As far as lowered property values, I just really do not believe there is an ounce of evidence indicating that that would become true. By the time the planes are over Summerlin they are just too high up to make much of a difference. It’s not as though they lived in the neighborhood surrounding LAS or LAX. Areas very near to airports do, historically, have a lowered desirability to other options further away, but we are talking about an area of the valley that is spread between 8 and 20 miles out from the airport.

If I could imagine anyone having a problem it might be neighborhoods to the east of McCarran. Airplanes, always landing and taking off into the wind, almost always land from the east and that flightpath takes them directly over what is probably Las Vegas’ most exclusive addresses: Lake Las Vegas. The homes out there are in the tens of millions of dollars range, many times – a number of them being home to celebrities such as Celine Dion. Guess what? There’s not much they can do about it because airplanes have to land and take off with regards to prevailing winds. Furthermore, it’s just not that big of a deal. The planes are far enough up that it is not overly loud or distracting. They are also roughly about as far out to the east as most of Summerlin is to the west, give or take a mile or two.

Until they reopened the right turn exit path for departing flights, the southwest, as I said, where I live, has been carrying almost all of the traffic. This is a nice area, as well. You would think that the people in Summerlin lived in castles with towers filled with princesses who could detect the smallest pea under their beds. The “right turn” departure path is not only a good solution to increase the traffic capabilities of McCarran, but it’s also fair to the other neighborhoods of the valley that don’t mind sharing the load, but are understandably offended by a few Summerlin residents’ self-importance. Get over it.

To add to the simple realities of allowing for both left and right exiting traffic from the airport, there are two other glaring reasons that it should have been happening all along, much less now. The first is for customer satisfaction. When there is only one primary departure runway, people can sit for up to an hour during the busiest times waiting for tower clearance to leave. That just sucks. No one wants to end a long weekend sitting in a plane – in fact, no one wants to sit in a plane on the tarmac for any reason ever. It’s like waiting to get a root canal. The other is probably the most important reason of all. As those planes full of grumpy people sit there, the engines on jets just idle away hundreds of pounds of fuel, adding to a growing valley pollution problem and to what might ultimately prove itself to be the most serious problem of our lifetimes – global warming.

Even with the right turn in place, in the next ten years or so they are saying McCarran will not be able to handle the load entirely. They’ve just recently cleared the way to build a new major airport in the valley around Jean, Nevada, south of town off of I-15.

I suspect (and hope) this silly issue will go away before long. There’s clearly no way that special treatment for one neighborhood can continue now or in the future in Las Vegas with the growth and expansion expected to continue with no end. That guy making the most noise about the “right turn” up in Summerlin made me think of the Clint Eastwood movie “Every Which Way But Loose” starring Clint and his pet orangutan.. Every time some doofus would be spouting something off he’d tell his buddy “Right turn, Clyde!” and the orangutan would punch directly to the right… Problem solved! hehe

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10 Comments

  1. Bob Smith on June 4, 2007 :

    Another one of these people who don’t care about getting their facts straight. All they need to do is spout out this crap about Summerlin. First off it is NOT Summerlin. Get that straight for one. For two it is not rich people. I live in an apartment. Third, maybe you don’t understand that where you are living the houses and apartments were designed for noise abatement. You are certainly experiencing less inside your house than I am inside my apartment. Four, the proposed right turn that the FAA said was going to be implemented IS NOT WHAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED. There are documents on the FAA’s website right now that are complete fabrications and lies. But you are happy with that of course. And you can’t complain to the FAA because as they say the comment period is over. Yeah the comment period on the lies that they told is is over.

    But for guys like you living in nice noise abating dwellings can tell us in apartments and have no car that I am “rich” and have to take the noise that is “on paper” on the FAAs website.

    Reality means nothing. And your whole post has to be one of the most sickening things I have seen written on this subject. Are you kidding. Try flying out of JFK and compare it to LAS. This is a dream city in comparison. Guess what they don’t just say lets turn here and there wherever we want to save a couple of minutes. There is a total effort in NYC to fly over the water in all the Metro airports. Oh and BTW, when you land in LAS you are right in the heart of the city. Compare that to other cities. You get a bonus time savings right off the bat.

    But should I really expect anything less than this total crap. This from a guy worried about GW and living in LV. There might be something more hypocrital out there but I doubt it. You live in a city that is totally designed to burn lots of carbon to get to for no practical reason whatsoever. This should be #1 on the list of cities that SHOULD NOT EXIST if you believe in this “problem” of GW. You should not be living here and supporting it.

  2. whilevegassleeps on June 5, 2007 :

    sure… it’s a federal conspiracy complete with lies on disinterested federal government websites.

    The “right turn” situaton has not existed forever, nor can it. It’s bad for the environment, it’s unfair to many Las Vegans, it’s standard procedure around the world (and yes, I am a pilot, thank you very much,) and it’s okay to disagree.

    I’m sorry that you felt my article was “sick,” but thanks for your comments, just the same… I think my readers can now at least see from your reply how strangely divisive and ugly the debate is over something so trivial, and that was really the point – there are many, many more important subjects to broach than this.

    Also, if you would, just please use your real name and email for the sake of debate and discussion when making a reply on my site. I don’t like to moderate replies in the interest of lively, useful debate, but when people are flaming out loud, rude “arguments” but hiding behind fictitious names and contact information so they can be particularly nasty – that’s why site administrators usually make it moderated or only for registered users.

    I’m leaving this comment up so future readers will see how sad this myopic debate about the “right turn” really is.

  3. Andrew on July 8, 2007 :

    NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES NOT BEING FOLLOWED

    Not all pilots are following the “right turn” path. The noise is deafening at all hours. Many pilots simply refuse to follow the higher altitude as they turn. Estimates are 1/8 to 1/4 mile off the ground. In general terms about 4 football fields.

    This is extremely close and dangerous.

    This can be explained by either pitiful pilots or simply plain laziness. American, Southwest can easily be read as they perform their right turns. It’s those same pilots that are creating the most noise. No abatement procedures, none.

    Too low, too low, too low.

    Not only for the ridiculous jet sound, but safety of my family is a major concern.

    Hey I have a great idea! Let’s turn a densely populated suburban living area into a primary commercial flight takeoff path for hundreds of outgoing flights per day!

    What brainiac thought this up????

    Seriously if they must perform their right turn, then have some common courtesy and do everything possible to keep the jet engine noise down. Maybe the pilots need a memo to use some consistency and courtesy.

    If we in Summerlin, The Lakes, etc area wanted to live next door to an airport we wouldn’t have paid a premium to live as far away from that noise as possible.

    Bottom Line

    Guaranteed if folks knew this was coming no one, I mean no one, would have chosen to live here. Would you?

    P.S. By the way author, where do you live?

  4. whilevegassleeps on July 8, 2007 :

    Hello, there… I live in the near southwest part of the valley.. Near Robindale and Jones.

    By the way, I also happen to be a pilot.. I don’t remember if I mentioned that previously, but the point I was going to make is that according to FAA regulations fixed-wing aircraft have to maintain a minimum safe distance of 1000 feet above the highest obstacle with a 2000 feet separation horizontally.. I can assure you that it is well beyond that by the time Jets get to Summerlin. They have average climb rates in excess of 2000 feet per minute and are under ATC’s control every step of the way, so there’s no way they’d only be that low.

    I understand that looks can be perceiving when just watching them fly, but they are definitely at a safe distance.

    You’re aware that the right turn is really just reinstating a previous flight path that existed over Summerlin, right? It hadn’t always been that they only turned left…

  5. Andrew on July 10, 2007 :

    Well my congratulations on you not being in this flight path!

    I’ve been living in Summerlin over eight years during the biggest development period of the “planned” suburban living.

    I do understand a similar right hand turn existed before and I also understand that someone had a very very good reason for halting the dangerous flight path in the first place. Wouldn’t you agree?

    -City planners in bed with Developers?
    -Delaying the right turn until this “planned area” is complete?
    -The popularity of this “planned area” would have ceased if residents knew this was coming, or still if it never ceased years ago. Don’t you agree?

    Something smells fishy. Corrupt city leaders. Read the news. Everyday, everyday, everyday.

    Cash Rules.

  6. whilevegassleeps on July 10, 2007 :

    >>>I do understand a similar right hand turn existed before and I also understand that someone had a very very good reason for halting the dangerous flight path in the first place. Wouldn’t you agree?>>>

    No, I don’t agree with that statement. I believe that the air traffic for the the past fifteen years or so made it possible to avoid over-flying those growing, affluent neighborhoods, but that won’t be possible to maintain now or in the future. This is not a new issue in America, as Southern California has had these things to deal with for a long, long time now. The procedures more-or-less work there and they will here as well.

    I also do not believe in the current position by Summerlin residents that the flight path is now “dangerous” in some way. Being a pilot and having flown over Summerlin myself many times in smaller aircraft on approach to North Las Vegas, it is simply routine, controlled, and safe. If anything, the student pilots at North Las Vegas are statistically many times more dangerous than commercial transport pilots flying out of McCarran. (North Las Vegas has the dubious honor of leading the nation in runway incursions, unfortunately…)

    And as far as the congratulations for not being in that flight path, as you will see in the original article, I’m not in the “right turn” but I am precisely in the other, regular, not-even-debated-because-its-the-only-other-option flight path – the “left turn.” It doesn’t bother me or my girlfriend at all. *shrugs*

    I wish people got as up in arms about real social problems as they do this “right turn” issue, which to my mind (and many others) is a non-issue.

  7. lavi d on July 15, 2007 :

    Hey man, congratulations on a well written blog.

    I found this site as a result of typing “McCarran right turn” into Google.

    I just moved from 95/Durango area to PeckerLee Ranch and just this evening – tossing and turning because of a cold – became aware of the jet noise.

    I agree that the whole “right turn” issue is a bit ridiculous in the grand scheme of things – until, of course a 727 wipes out 20-30 houses and a school.

    But what are the chances of that? Pretty slim.

    Nevertheless, as a previous poster noted, it is tempting to raise the issue of government collusion in the timing of the change-over, but again, the issue is nebulous enough to not really warrant much debate. (Surely not as much as I’m giving it right now, but I can’t get back to sleep – and not because of jets)

    I think it probably just has a lot to do with perceptions. I moved here, vaguely aware of the issue, but my concerns were proximity to work and comfort. I love this place! A jet passing overhead every 20 minutes to an hour is just not a big deal – unless they never used to do it – then I could see someone getting piffy over it.

    Oh, and I’m renting. If it really gets to be an issue, I can move!

    As to the poster above, in an apartment, have you thought about moving?

    Ah. Like said originally, too much text about nothing.

    Oh well. Off to litter on someone else’s blog…

  8. whilevegassleeps on July 16, 2007 :

    lavi: that last question was the one that had instantly come to my mind as well :P

    -=- christopher

  9. Larry on March 17, 2008 :

    Amazing how people some seem to think there are no schools or houses in the southwest.

    LMAO..it’s dangerous to turn right but not left…

    It sickens me to see taxpayer money wasted to protect the rich. I belive the figure is around $400,000 dollars so far.

  10. diane on February 11, 2009 :

    I bet the residents at NLVAT could win at a decible duel anyday. Not only did the county convert a private and nearly closed airfield to a huge reliever for McCarran with very limited public notice, but it’s uncontrolled growth into residential airspace, reconfiguration of runways that eject extremely low flying flight training and tour operations over homes & schools,and failure of the FAA to monitor and control occupied skys has now earned this general aviation airport: MOST dangerous USA airport- even more so than LAX or JFK.

    The county consistantly and arrogantly dismisses the far more humble but decades longer established residents of the “Golden Triangle” as unworthy of any honest dialog. In one meeting after another accident- a McCarran official shouted down a resident when he dared suggest low aircraft depart over public uses such as roads ( in the original noise abatement plan.) The breaucrat bully said” what do you want- the airplanes to “crash ” on the street??. A year later- two crashed into homes since 2/3 of the departures are now over nearby and PREexisting homes.

    The newest runway was commissioned around 2004 and dedicated to flight training. Because there are 5 flight schools with additional rentals at NLVAT, this activity can go on ALL day long and an extremely high noise levels ( average of 85+ due to power on take offs) and because the newest runway threshold was built so close to existing neighborhoods ,the aircraft are just hundreds instead of thousands of feet overhead at decible levels that would eclipse anything under McCarran’s right or left turn paths. Even pilots will complain flight schools train at such low altitudes that they cannot make the airport in an emergency. One landed on Decatur just a few years back.

    The residents under the ever expanding NLVAT have never had a voice. Randy Walker has said the deafening racket of all day training dedicated deep into private airspace ( under 500 ft) is just “the sound of money.” An airport planner said the 80-90 decible levels were not surprising but “only single events.” Yeah- “single” events every 60 seconds all day-some days and weekends- into the night. This community has shallow pockets and no political influence. We are the valley’s “decible dump” because the airport has NEVER enforced the required noise abatement or mitigation measures it promised.

    When one resident & pilot asked a MCCarran official why impacted residents were never given any public notice or opportunity to respond when the newest runway was planned- a configuration that would turn their airspace into an aerial racetrack- the breaucrat’s jaw dropping comments was:
    “Because the socio-economic status of the community does NOT warrent it.”

    That says it all. I can emphatize with the hill folks when they protect added noise- but at least the city advocates for them and doesn’t abandon them when they are forced to live under “America’s most dangerous airport.”

    The re

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